I think this fits in this channel: 1) What applica...
# thinking-together
m
I think this fits in this channel: 1) What applications do you use that use drag and drop in an interesting way? 2) same question but web apps 3) same question but on mobile native 4) same but on mobile web 5) for mobile native but touch gestures 6) same as 5 but for mobile web
w
May not count as interesting, but to be completely honest: (1) dragging images from browser to desktop mostly – yes, any authoring tool uses drags, but I'm in code more often. (2) Drop a photo to share it. (3) Reordering podcasts in Overcast. (4) Never. (5) Switching apps/context. Dismissing notifications. (6) Never.
d
Err... aside from dragging files around, or shapes on a diagram, the only thing I can think of is that FB Messenger chat bubble on my phone. While others flick it out of existence immediately, I often drag it out of my way but leave it on the screen... I kinda like having my contacts sitting there in the bubble.
w
Might speak to interfaces being less spacial these days.
f
When working at my laptop, I try to avoid Drag and Drop because it's weird to perform with a touchpad. A simple button or keyboard shortcuts like Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V are simpler / more flexible IMO. On the other hand, Drag and Drop is a good physical metaphor that makes it easier to learn for beginners.
s
Things (to do list management) on iOS has a plus button to add new tasks you can drag anywhere to create a new task right there. Or if you drag it into the lower right corner it will be created in you inbox. It also is context-aware and creates a new project, if you drag it into the project list on the left on iPad. The video on their website shows all that: https://culturedcode.com/things/ Are you looking for drag and drop specifically, or more generally gestures? For gestural interaction I'd encourage you to watch this, even if you don’t use/like/care about Apple: https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2018/803/
I also use gestures on my Mac for switching between virtual desktops (3-finger swipe horizontal), control center (3-finger swipe vertical), and revealing the desktop (4-finger spread), and it's total muscle memory for me now and feels super natural. Same thing with the gesture system that replaced the home button on iOS that is talked about in the video above. Gestures on mobile web often conflict with the mental model of having a scrollable website, unless we’re talking about a web app that doesn’t try to be a website anymore at all. I wish there were more and better mobile optimized websites; I don’t want to download an app for a service I'll only transact with once a year. There are so many terrible native apps that would be much better as an optimized mobile website. It seems like that everything is drifting either towards classic full-blown desktop website or native (or half-assed cross-platform “native”) mobile app — both often resulting in a subpar experience. I do think web technology allows for a really great experience, I don’t really understand why there aren’t many good mobile websites.
m
I get the feeling almost nobody uses nothing more than click and double click, most of the drag and drop usage is from OS apps, or the file manager, or standard ui elements (reoder tabs)
there's the problem that those interactions are hard to discover
s
Yep. Good gestures are a productivity shortcut. Just like keyboard shortcuts. You’ll have to discover and learn them, but then they can make you more productive. Keyboard shortcuts are a little easier to discover (menu bar in macOS), but harder to learn. Good gestures feel natural and are easier to learn, but harder to discover, because you can’t just summarize them with a few symbols. Hmm… maybe you can.
I also think it’s good when gestures are not app specific and more OS related and part of an overarching UI language. Again, just like keyboard shortcuts, they’re more useful, if they do the same or at least very similar actions across many apps. It would be a mess if pinch to zoom would do something else in every app. Just like it would be a mess if Cmd-C and Cmd-V would do different things across apps. With gestures were still in a phase where we have to figure out what the universal gestures should be. With keyboards the dust has settled, as they’ve been around for a long time.
g
Is there any actual data that gestures are easier to learn? There are 1000s of keyboard shortcuts, lots in each app. I know 10s of gestures.
I also suck at learning them (maybe bad gestures). Like iOS iPhone X slide down from right of notch for control panel. slide from left of notch for notifications. It's been 14 months since I've had this phone I still never remember that. 100% of the time I slide on the right, get the control panel which I didn't want, curse at the bad UX (or myself for getting it wrong again). Try to slide the left 😛
w
Only games seem to understand the importance of practice to mastery. It's not just knowing that there is a gesture/shortcut, it's making it second nature. Why just the other day I "rediscovered" that I can add Omnifocus todo items with "hey Siri" simply because I had gotten out of the habit. The most shocking was a time I was sitting next to an analyst facing an Excel sheet when he reached for the four function calculator next to him on the desk.
s
You’re right, @gman, I don’t know if there's hard data about what’s easier to learn, gestures or keyboard shortcuts. I was basing my assumption on gestures being more aligned with some of the metaphorical structures we use in natural language (e.g. “stock market is up”, “up” is metaphorically structured to mean “more” or “positive”; that's hopelessly oversimplified, see Lakoff's work for details). Gestures can have direction and physicality (also talked about in the video I linked to above). This I believe to encourage intuitive understanding, because it is tapping into some very deeply embedded metaphors that we use all the time in language and which are based on how we interact with the world (think of how much in language is structured with e.g. spatial direction, “stock market up”, “feeling down”, “going back in time”, “moving forward with a decision”, etc.). However, how well that works, might also be dependent on how we acquire that skill, much like language itself. I have spend almost seven years officially (and many more before and after that) in that world of Apple's user interface design and experience principles, and for me a lot of these gestures just make sense on a very intuitive level with not much cognitive effort involved. I find it much harder to memorize the right chords of keys to press for more advanced keyboard shortcuts. The ones I do use all the time, are “muscle memory”, as in I wouldn’t be able to tell you the keys without watching my fingers — and isn’t that also a gesture? So from that I was following that gestures are on a somewhat lower level, where there is less cognitive effort involved. Of course, assuming that the metaphors used for gestures are aligned with metaphors we use in natural language, for which pinch-to-zoom seems to be an excellent example for instance.