does anyone know of any radical paradigms for navi...
# thinking-togetherg
Garth Goldwater
08/01/2019, 12:37 AMdoes anyone know of any radical paradigms for navigating the web? eg: not treating web pages like documents, not treating history as mostly ephemeral, facilitating collection or breadth-first search, weird zooming user interfaces, etc?
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alltom
08/01/2019, 12:46 AMCan’t find it in my notes any more, but I feel like one of the first ZUIs was a browser? When you clicked a link, the new page opened to the right and bigger. Hopefully there’s a lot in this area, that’s just what came to mind first.
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Garth Goldwater
08/01/2019, 12:56 AMthat rings a distant bell for me, although i’m not sure i could google it
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Niko Autio
08/01/2019, 1:33 AMSome helpers:
-Is HTML correct 'the one' which ties JS and CSS? What if the most first-class citizen would be pure data instead of ~GUI? (linked data stuff?)
-How do you can use web hosted tools to work with content available from other sites (without manual integrations by either sites developer)? Example: why I cannot use CkEditor inline editor for arbitrary site like writing Slack comments?
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Doug Moen
08/01/2019, 2:10 AMYou should look at Ted Nelson's book "Dream Machines" (1974). Nelson coined the word hypertext and invented the world wide web in the late 1960's/early 1970's. The web browser paradigm we use today was first implemented by Nelson and others as "The Hypertext Editing System" at Brown University, in the late 1960's. Nelson considered it a failed prototype, and went on to design a much better system, called Xanadu, which is documented in that book.
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Duncan Cragg
08/01/2019, 8:40 AMMy own http://Object.Network design reinvents the web in a way: instead of HTML docs linked together, which assumes presentation level, with maybe some semantics piggy-backed on or tunnelled through, it has what I've unimaginatively called "objects" linked together. Like our familiar OO objects, these can be both data and docs, "semantic" or "model" as well as "view".
Duncan Cragg
08/01/2019, 9:08 AMSo, to more directly answer the OP's challenge: in the Object Net you can navigate through the network (web) of objects by transclusion or by jumping to linked objects, just like in the web.
So the interface is a 2D view of nested boxes each representing an object you can see from the current object you're on, via links, up to a finite depth. So for example you get the "mirrors facing each other" effect if two objects point to each other and you keep opening each up inside the other.
Duncan Cragg
08/01/2019, 9:09 AMIf an object happens to be a "view" or document or presentational object that the "browser" recognises, it can be rendered as the fully painted thing, not the raw data.
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Drewverlee
08/01/2019, 12:45 PMCheck out rebl by Cognitect
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Garth Goldwater
08/01/2019, 2:47 PMlove rebl, and i actually own a hard copy of dream machines haha. more curious about practically drawn out examples, eg https://www.mercuryos.com/ but for just networked data. i think this is my kick in the pants to finally dig into onex
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Duncan Cragg
08/02/2019, 8:58 AMMercury would be a perfect UI for Onex. I may steal all their ideas. 😄
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Duncan Cragg
08/02/2019, 8:58 AMOnex doesn't have apps either. Each Module in Mercury corresponds to an object or view/model object pair in Onex.
Duncan Cragg
08/02/2019, 9:02 AM@Garth Goldwater ↑↑
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Garth Goldwater
08/02/2019, 7:53 PMthe other UIs that strike me as relevant if you find that interesting are exactly:
Garth Goldwater
08/02/2019, 7:54 PMif you’re looking for more inspiration
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Duncan Cragg
08/02/2019, 8:52 PMOh thanks, Garth 😄