I’ve been kindly asked to leave the FoC community....
# administrivia
s
I’ve been kindly asked to leave the FoC community. I’m not upset or disappointed by this request but I would like to share the reasons why, from my perspective and invite others to comment according to theirs. 1. Harsh could be one word, but also bold, brave, and thoughtful could be others. I apologize if my feedback and comments on others posts hurt anyones feelings, I honestly have respect and love for everyone. My intention was to challenge and, at times be polarizing, which I hoped more people would be in FoC and the world at large. I don’t believe “poking the beast” and “stepping on toes” is wrong, even though it could hurt. 2. My intention to participate here was to share ideas, join in constructive criticism, and participate in debate which I was hoping would result in finding like minds that would work with our team — in short: recruiting. This may be against the policies of this community (I’m not clear on that) which I’m sorry for crossing the line if people felt I was advertising a product or exclusively looking to recruit. 3. We are not getting the collaboration or feedback we were hoping (good and bad feedback that is) from FoC participants. There could be many reasons for this that I won’t speculate on here, but often results in frustration as compared to other communities I’m participating in. I want to thank @Ivan Reese and countless others for maintaining this community and I sincerely hope you all the best. As for me, I’ll continue to pursue a mission that I strongly believe is the future of coding, but unfortunately will no longer be sharing here. I’m free to reach on Twitter, email, Linkedin, wherever for those that want to stay in touch. Again, thank you and I hope success to your projects.
c
Steve, my perspective, the reason I didn't engage thus far is I can tell you're part of a well-established for-profit effort, that you're trying to drive community to help with many tasks you're responsible for, and I want to save my bandwidth for those whose products are much earlier, where a little bit of connection and engagement make all the difference between continuing an experiment or letting it go. I also have to ignore many other projects that are well underway or where it's not catching my attention for one reason or another.
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Wish you big success making magical products, and glad you all are working in this space and finding traction. It's heartening.
i
Here's some quick context on this. (Middle of the workday for me, so if anyone has questions, I'll follow-up down the road.) Steve's first 10-ish posts to the community were purely evangelizing StoryScript, without responding to the substance of any conversations he participated in. I reached out to him then, and asked him to engage more, and not just use the community for eyeballs. He then went on to engage very deeply, offering fantastic responses to a wide variety of threads and (so I've heard) having a number of powerful and helpful discussions with people in private. But, whenever Steve asked for feedback about StoryScript, there was a disconnect in the discussions. Steve seemed frustrated at the kind of feedback he was getting. He said to me, in public and in private, that he didn't want to engage in this community unless we did a better job of meeting his needs. That frustration is on clear display in this thread from today. Given that this was a recurring thing, not just a one-off, and that he'd long been using the threat of leaving the community to gain conversational leverage, I asked him to see himself out. Simply put: what we have going on here isn't what he wanted, and his way of trying to get what he wanted out of us didn't work.
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c
Seems a bit harsh to me to be asked to leave, but perhaps I'm operating on partial information. Certainly the linked thread came across crabby and arrogant, but it wasn't really corrupting the rest of the Slack. "Please leave" behaviour to me is being a negative influence in other people's conversations. A lot of the threads were a bit corporate-y but they weren't really spam. I feel like the feedback on that thread would have probably been sufficient to elicit a change in behaviour. Good luck with Storyscript @Steve, you've invested more in you FoC vision than I'll ever be brave enough to do!
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n
I reviewed the thread that sparked this decision, and I do agree that Steve's demeanour was not up to the standards of this community. I also reviewed Steve's contributions in prior months, and I think they were insightful and respectful. I don't know what led to this change, but it's disappointing in multiple ways, and (edit: the absence of) Steve's voice will likely be a loss.
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i
There was a theme of "what's in it for me?" about every interaction we had. It seems that that underscored his entire time here in the community. That fits with what I said above, about his first 10-ish posts being, effectively, spam. So yes, it's a loss that we won't have his energy and enthusiasm. I also personally think StoryScript is a very cool project, and I think they do have a good shot at doing some of the things they're setting out to do — or at least exploring that space well enough to eventually learn why some parts of it are way harder than they imagined, and adjusting their vision toward something more practicable. But I will be happy to not have to have him message me again, telling me he doesn't like it here, or fishing for my attention / admiration, using the threat of leaving the community as a way of baiting me into a debate with him, in which he ignores my points and myopically zooms-in on details of my throwaway examples, and then shares his disappointment in me for my apparent lack of big vision. He had been taking his frustration out on me, in small ways, throughout the months, and now today finally started venting that frustration in public. So that's why I asked him to go. Enough with the threatening to leave as manipulation. Fish or cut bait. He's not banned. He's welcome to come back. He's welcome to recruit. But he's not welcome to spam, vent, or manipulate on the basis of us not conforming to his expectations.
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A few additional scattered thoughts / details. I'm a bit at a loss for how to talk about this — Steve is very good at smiling for the camera (so to speak) while being very candid with his thoughts in private, so forgive me if some of this lacks diplomacy. Several times throughout the year, Steve reached out to me with the same thoughts and feelings he shared today in that thread and in his goodbye post above — (paraphrasing and filtering out heaps of negativity), "I am disappointed with the discussions here in this community. Nobody here has vision, and nobody is willing to criticize my work. I have invested a lot of my time and have not received enough value in return. I think I'm going to leave." Each time, I tried to talk to him about why he felt this way, offer him some of the very direct feedback he asked for (doing my best to focus on the work, keep it actionable, do critique rather than mere criticism). He seemed to appreciate it, and respond well to the energy of it. But none of the substance of my comments ever seemed to make it through — exactly like what you see in that thread from today. It wasn't what he wanted to hear, so he didn't hear it. (As an illustrative example: early on in the thread today, he asked us to tell him if his explanation was unclear. Multiple people responded saying this is unclear... and here's my best effort at what I think it is. He responded with frustration at the best-effort guesses, never offering any clarity. This is exactly the pattern that played out in all my discussions with him.) Every time he reached out to me, I felt as though he was talking to me about these frustrations because he wanted me to make an appeal to him, to prove to him that this community was worth his time. All the while, he'd be quite dynamic and engaging and offer plenty of cheer in public, in contrast to his private frustrations. I got the impression that he wanted me to run this community more like an incubator / accelerator. More activity, more ambition, less concern about hurt feelings, move fast and break things. He has other communities like that. What our community has, that his other ones probably don't, is deep technical / subject expertise. From his post above (emphasis added):
My intention to participate here was to share ideas, join in constructive criticism, and participate in debate which I was hoping would result in finding like minds that would work with our team — in short: recruiting. This may be against the policies of this community (I’m not clear on that) which I’m sorry for crossing the line if people felt I was advertising a product or exclusively looking to recruit.
Addendum — a peek behind the "mod life" curtain that nobody asked for but it helps me to be able to share my feelings, since Steve leaving is, unfortunately, a certain kind of milestone. Now that Steve and Vladimir have left the community, and Edward was formally banned, there are now zero other people who are or ever have been venting frustration to me in private while carrying on merrily participating in the community. If you had asked me near the beginning of the year who I was worried about having to interact with as part of my role as moderator, I would have named only these three people. (Well... okay, two or three more, but those guys stopped posting entirely once we made it crystal clear that it's not permissible to say "It is perfectly normal and good that there are no women in this community".) I've spent way more time talking to Steve, Vladimir, and Edward in private than I have talking about Hest or reading the links people post. That's the cost of being the moderator, and I accept that cost with no reservation. Yes, it's a shame that we've lost their perspectives, and they each made significant positive contributions. But it is just as much a shame that so much energy was sunk into appealing to them, and working with them in private and in public, in an ultimately futile attempt to help them get more out of this community and not insist that we be aggressive, thick-skinned, or selectively apolitical. I'm not sure what additional lessons I can learn by reflecting on this in totality, but I will continue trying, so that when the need again arises I can better do right by all involved. For now, everyone in this community is a pure, unqualified pleasure for me to know and interact with. Yes, even Duncan. This is such a relief.. sadly. I am now looking forward to participating more in the community as a regular ol' member, not just as a moderator. I'm sure there will be other people in the future who find themselves here with some particular axe to grind, and I'll readily be the grindstone. But for now, fingers crossed, I'll be able to interact with ya'll in a more substantial way, focused on futurism rather than absorbing misguided frustrations.
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c
Make more sense with context 👍
w
Context usually helps. Comonads for everyone.
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s
Late to this, but Steve and Edward both had similar traits in different forms. Mainly they wanted to steer, often unrelated, conversations to fit their way of thinking. It's still a little unclear to me what Steve wanted from the community even after all this. I feel like people gave him good feedback based on what he shared
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