i have a lot of curiousity about the gender compos...
# thinking-together
n
i have a lot of curiousity about the gender composition of this group ... anyone know?
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j
100% ai
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d
Pretty sure it's mostly men. (Men who wish their wives were equally obsessed with programming?)
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s
or men who explain programming to their girlfriends against their will?
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d
I'm a man who sees his (otherwise female, generally not very techie) family as his project's target demographic!
w
@Duncan Cragg, oh man, as soon as I got the new iPad, I got stuck on the idea of making an intuitive computer algebra system for my wive: write equations with your pencil, manipulate by writing the action you want to perform.
d
hmmm .. fun
k
I am a woman. Am i the only one in a group?
s
Unfortunately our composition is extremely skewed.
i
My wife is a programmer. I expect my daughter to become one too in a few years. Most of the programmers on my team are women. In my music community, the most tech-savvy fusionists are women. But (with the exception of my daughter), I think they all have to fight so hard to be respected and acknowledged for their skill that they don't have the liberty to look at ripping up the foundations and remaking programming in their image. I wish things were different.
@Katyaso You're the only woman I can remember seeing here.
Rather than seeing (techy or not) women as a target demo, or people to bore with my ramblings, I see them as people who have a more valuable contribution to make to the design of the FoC than I do. @jonathoda says:
My thesis: The theory and practice of programming is permeated with the sensibilities of high-functioning autistics like myself. De-nerding programming will unlock great benefits for all of humanity. We too will benefit, for despite our hubris we are also way over our heads.
Yes, this. But also, it's not just autistics who are overrepresented in computation / PL / systems research, and the same line of thinking holds merit for every group underrepresented in the creation of our current computing.
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k
Here is a situation I have encounter recently. The software company was developing a new phone app for business targeting pregnant women. The male designer made choices not very suitable for target audience by having an interesting background that to a woman feels like stained fabric. In position of being pregnant ( so far this position is “women only” )) and the choice like that is a no-no for design in particular app. In some situations design have to be done by a woman. And in some situations it should be better done by a man. I feel that if we actually value the differences we will be closer to having a respect. That is just my opinion. I do not want to be like a man or treated like one. Perhaps my position is not very modern. I do not know.
d
Obviously making broad generalisations about groups or stereotypical labels of people is always problematic, so it may be better to notice correlations to attributes of people, like: being a programmer/techie correlates with the attributes of being male, young, Caucasian or Asian, uni-educated, slightly Asperger's onwards up the spectrum, etc. - let's go for around 90% of the techie community, but maybe 10% of the overall population. If you take the "inverse" of the programmer/techie labels you get: female or child or later adult or pre-uni or postgrad educated or no identified behavioural syndromes. Which is the remaining 90% of the population, if our techie sample was 10%. The target audience of my own work is the 90%. I'm very lucky to have three excellent examples of that in my close family! I normally don't discuss Onex with techies because they simply can't understand it!! My family gets it right away.
This community is made up of maybe half of us who have the 90% as their primary target versus the other half who are starting with the 10%.
Or 2% if they're aiming directly at current practicing techies
I think "Future of coding" is an appropriate label for the interest of the techie-focused, versus "Future of programming" for us non-techie-focused.
Which is why I objected to the name change 😄
d
Interesting, I just thought "coding" was the new word for "programming". I think it's worthwhile to look for ways to please all... existing coders, new coders, and people that never really considered doing programming.
w
For more worse than better (I suppose), "coding" does seem to be the new word for "programming". I still go with "software developer" as a job title since it's the developing (and debugging) of it rather than the programming or coding where the value lies.
d
Coding can be the new word for programming if that's what techies want, but I'm definitely not building anything that enables coding, i.e., encoding, i.e., obfuscation of human readability in order to suit the machine!
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this is a good example of what I'm talking about: due to the dichotomous nature of the people and goals here, we end up talking across one another.
maybe better to have two discussion sub-channels, one for the FoC and one the FoP crowd?
Here's the poll I did which shows this, and indicates that FoP for non-techies is quite a big interest here: https://futureofcoding.slack.com/conversation/C5T9GPWFL/p1545216276372200