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reminder to watch this talk by <@UEBG0NPDK> <https...
# thinking-together
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reminder to watch this talk by @ibdknox

https://youtu.be/a_o-ZzgpiK8▾

or rewatch it if you have already—many people in here could skip ahead to ~30 minute mark because we already know the first part of the story (although it’s particularly well told version). it really concretely emphasizes a huge part of bret’s talks that i wish got more airtime: the importance of direct manipulation (further references in thread)
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https://youtu.be/ShEez0JkOFw▾

this is a great talk about woodworking and clojure that was referenced (i promise it’s very good) also @ibdknox you referenced it in the talk as though you couldn’t find it again but here it is
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https://youtu.be/ZfytHvgHybA▾

probably bret’s best talk on direct manipulation “inside the computer” before he moves to direct manipulation in the world (i think chris’s talk makes the link way clearer for any who are curious—in the real world, you don’t have to invent the universe before you bake a pie)
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also if you’re interested in understanding more about the use of empathy to empower users in computer environments, https://www.amazon.com/Humane-Interface-Directions-Designing-Interactive/dp/0201379376 is a great read
and sorry to @ibdknox if i’ve dredged up any weird recollections by digging out a 2-year-old talk of yours but it’s very good thank you for giving it
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https://youtu.be/VZQoAKJPbh8▾

i think this is the berkeley talk he’s referencing near the end
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unfortunately the talk I was referencing wasn't recorded
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which is sad, because it was one of my favorites
it talked about learning from games and creating worlds for people to operate in
The version of Eve from the SPLASH talk was heavily inspired by self, though we didn't know that when we initially arrived at it. We ended up calling it self-eve heh.
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i KNEW it lmao
hey last ping @ibdknox in a few of these talks you (like alan kay) have referenced achieving a lot of these editors in, eg, ~600 lines of code. do you have any principles or techniques (or know of presentations, articles, or videos somewhere) that help you/others design systems that end up that terse/expressive?
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@ibdknox That explains it. I had to take a close look before it was clear that it wasn’t Self. Great to see this kind of work. Is this project available online?
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@Garth Goldwater that's something I'd probably have to write about sometime, though there are some folks who I really think embody what we do: check out everything by the bitsquid/ourmachinery guys. I love pretty much everything they do and they're the closest I've seen to where we ended up. Eskil Steenburg was an influence to us as well.
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The data driven design stuff from the games industry tends to end up pushing for simple "never miss a frame" style solutions
@Steve Dekorte I don't think that one ever made it up in a form that'd be easy for others to use unfortunately 😞
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i’m assuming you’re referring to bitsquid the game engine
AHH ESKILL MADE LOVE THE GAME
i was trying to find his post on his ideal operating/file system within the last month to post in this slack
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Eskil is awesome 🙂
and yeah, bitsquid the game engine
after the autodesk acquisition they've started another engine company lol: https://ourmachinery.com/post/
From an engineering perspective those guys are my people
they're all about questioning conventional wisdom and finding ways to just do the stupid simple thing
One thing we learned after doing a bunch of really crazy stuff trying to make Eve fast was that the only way to really be fast is to just not do very much
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all those fancy algorithms in the papers we read never really panned out unless the point of the algorithm was that it was a simpler solution
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that game and blog had a huge impact on me back in the day
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