I don’t really know if this is question that belon...
# thinking-together
p
I don’t really know if this is question that belongs in FoC, so please feel free to moderate and remove this if it doesn’t fit the ethos. Here is the scenario: I am trying to gather resources that talk about hypergraphs/intertwingled style resources for a tweet thread I’m running: https://twitter.com/prathyvsh/status/1330063701802700800 Can you guys think of any examples in computation or in any other domains that talk about this idea of having a lot of recursive/reflexive structures? These are the ones I could find so far:
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Here are some links to these things if anyone wants to check them out: 1/ Heterarchy: 2/ Intertwingled 3/ Manifold 4/ Folded Space 5/

Reflexive Structures

6/ Tangled Hierarchy 7/ Impredicativity 8/ Rhizome 9/ Self Contained Space
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k
Does Bruce Sterling's notion of a Stack seem to fit here?
p
Hearing that for the first time, let me investigate.
k
He's a sci-fi author who critiques the present at conferences, so might not be in the same category as the others (though I think of him as the same category as Deleuze and Guattari) He's hard to quote, though. This might be a good intro: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/12/bruce-sterling-on-why-it-stopped-making-sense-to-talk-about-the-internet-in-2012/266674/
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b
I don't fully understand what the goal of your tweets are but I like the visualizations. I work with Grakn (which uses a hypergraph data model) and it seems to me you're thinking about similar concepts. Do you have any further work I can look at around these ideas? Also, do strange loops relate to the braided space ideas you've listed?
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l
Rhizome seems like a weird inclusion to me––if you want some Deleuze, his reworking of Leibniz's notion of the fold seems like a better fit? In general, though, I'm default-skeptical of attempts to reappropriate concepts theory borrows from math.
Actually, three more things: 1. Manifolds also seem like a weird inclusion; they're just one topological concept, and they aren't essentially... irregular? tangled? pick your term. 2. George Landow's writing on hypertext (applying esp. Barthes, Derrida) is relevant philosophy, notable because it's about meaning-making in a graph of texts rather than traversal in a graph of states. 3. "Graphs are generically useful" isn't surprising per se, and bucketing a bunch of applications of graphs without stressing the (dis)similarities between them risks just making that claim. These various authors have models built on the same substratum, but they're using graphs in wildly different ways––is the collection meaningful (i.e. are there theories referencing graphs or tangles that you'd exclude)? Does your idea of a narrative-forming traversal mean compatible things among very different graphs (a graph of states, of texts, an abstract topological category...)?
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p
@Kartik Agaram The Stacks idea if I am understanding correctly seems like it is hierarchical. I am thinking of heterarchical ones here as is you get a lot of cycles and loops going between them, like in a code base with recursion and cross links. So looking for things that share cyclical graph likes rather than a lattice/tree/list.
@Brandon My idea is to talk about this aspect of linearization or partial ordering as it happens when you start talking about stuff. I started researching into the history of Lambda Calculus (which sort of is the foundation for a lot of FP stuff) and as my understanding sharpened I found out that there is a lot of concurrency, link backs, reinterpretation etc. that happens in that space. But to narrate this (hi)story as one goddamn thing after another, it becomes important to partition the graph to a linear list (or tree/lattice). That is what I am trying to capture with this series. These are all great materials: https://futureofcoding.slack.com/archives/C5T9GPWFL/p1606080246079200?thread_ts=1606079753.078900&channel=C5T9GPWFL&message_ts=1606080246.079200 If you love Hofstadter’s work I highly recommend you look into Louis Kauffman’s video. It has a math slant but it is illuminating. Re: Strange loops, yup, Strange loop occurs in a tangled hierarchy, which I have linked as a main one.
@Lukas Schwab 1. Manifolds are the quintessential things I am talking about and the reason for starting this as I found out that there is this aspect of linearizing them which happens in computation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braid_group?wprov=sfti1 2. I need to look up Landow’s work. First time hearing about him. 3. Its not graphs exactly that is the emphasis here, but a (un)connected manifold that has got braids. I hope it will become clear as I write up the next entries in the series. The idea is that there is a linearization that takes these high dimensional manifolds to linearized ones as we take a graph to create narratives using some property of it for partially / linearly ordering its entities.
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i
(Self-styled mod here — this is totally on topic. Thank you!)
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p
@Lukas Schwab Looks like that image ate the reply. I included Rhizome for it has this multiway cyclical link between entities, but it can be understood as a single organism like those Pando forests. Also: “Deleuze and Guattari use the terms "rhizome" and "rhizomatic" to describe theory and research that allows for multiple, non-hierarchical entry and exit points in data representation and interpretation” is pretty much in line with what I am trying to understand here by saying braids/heterarchy. But I should also probably look into folds from Leibniz because I feel it has some connections with this. Thank you for that note.
l
Yeah, I meant Deleuze's commentary on Leibniz in particular! https://www.upress.umn.edu/book-division/books/the-fold
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