Vibe-coding your own desktop environment: <https:/...
# linking-together
k
Vibe-coding your own desktop environment: https://isene.org/2026/05/Audience-of-One.html As this toot points out, however, this personalization comes at the price of making oneself dependent on a coding agent.
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m
the alternative being not being able to?
the code stays, you can eject whenever you want
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"this personalization comes at the price of making oneself dependent on a settings dialog"
k
You can eject, but then you are stuck with the current state of your tools forever. Which in practice means until it is broken by an earthquake in its infrastructure, typically after a year or so. A settings dialog is very different from a coding agent. Most programmers would be able to write their own, it's just not worth the effort if you can use a ready-made one. The degree of dependency is very different.
The really interesting question is the one about alternatives. The obvious one is "not being able to", i.e. use off-the-shelf tools like everybody else. A halfway-in-between alternative is to use the malleable infrastructures of the past, meaning Emacs, Smalltalk, etc. Or a modern incarnation such as @Tom Larkworthy ' Lopecode.
m
then why people don't use emacs, smalltalk more? in fact most people never did, not even programmers
I've used vim for almost 20 years, I never wrote a plugin for it, my setup before lazyvim was always a fragile mess
I'm almost always forever stuck with the default state of my tools
we as a community can't get out of slack, we are paying the price of making ourselves dependent on slack
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even when I've been working since forever to achieve end user malleable systems I don't confuse what I wish was true with what actually is. Before and after llms the shortest description I can get is that most people most of the time want convenience, even us power users. We have a limited "budget" and focus on things we care about, and for the rest we almost always take convenience over "fit to our specific needs". If the counter argument is "that may be your case", just reflect on this community of people that deeply care about this topic and how much malleable software we create, mantain, promote and use.
t
I pretty much stick to default, less bugs that way. I use claude code to fix issues with my mac though, which is pretty cool. I think "coding agent" is selling it short. Apps with internal reasoning, thats a true expressivity game changer over a config or setting panel. It can configure itself to things unanticipated by the developer, and it can creatively combine posix tools towards a goal better than I can. I also do not like being dependent on a huge service. But it makese sense, the computers are really big and expensive and can only justify their cost if running continuously. They are not self-hosting sized, unfortunately, even if the software was available. I think I can take the LLM dependency if 1. you can get the LLM from a few different providers, that helps with a downward pressure on the market to be competitive. 2. the LLM is for the control plane i.e. the software works without an LLM (and offline in general), but I accept reconfiguring it might be difficult by hand (your losing the reasoning part) My productivity has sky rocketed with LLMs so I can't really see them going away or not being integral to development and/or operations now.
d
As someone who only ever bothers with Nvim distros, defaults to fish shell and generally rarely checks the man doc let alone the config's mandoc, as someone who doesn't really do programming recreationally, I had a rather few eye opening moments this year where the 5 minutes I spent looking at config manuals made incredible impact on the comfort of my computing environment. These range from undervolting a laptop to learning a simple tmux cmd. The reason I'm sharing is that these moments made me realize that as precious those 5 minutes are, they can actually be very well spent at customization. Reading manuals, I tend to associate that with nights wasted distro hopping and desktop ricing of my youth but those are but extremes and swinging back to the opposite extreme only had me settling for a sharp and hard defaults. We're all so different after all. Anecdote aside, one thing that really helped me was having a better understanding of what made me uncomfortable. I maintained a todo list for personal computing maintaince tasks (which I usually tackle when procrastinating something else). I used atuin to analyze what commands I used most. I used LLMs too in some cases, they're a big help when it comes to sanding edges. Categorically, I (and everyone here) have always been and will always be a statical outlier when it comes to customizing their computer. That being said, the virtue there is really real me thinks. Defaults are overrated.
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k
@Mariano Guerra
then why people don't use emacs, smalltalk more? in fact most people never did, not even programmers
Some do, some don't. As you say, there was probably never a time when most people did, and yet, these systems have survived for decades because they remain important for enough people to keep them alive. People have different priorities, and that's fine with me. What I think everyone should do, however, is explore the pros and cons of their tech choices, short term and long term with the latter involving some form of scenario planning. Just to avoid bad surprises. In particular if your tech choices impact others as well. In short, do what @Tom Larkworthy just did above: explore the trade-offs.
Personally, I avoid LLMs for reasons that sit one level above technology trade-offs. LLMs are a big step forward in a tendency that has grown since the 2000s: power concentration, resulting in surveillance and exploitation of more and more people and ever increasing destruction of the biosphere. I do not want to contribute to this in any way, and I am in the fortunate situation to be able to make that choice without being sanctioned.
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That said, I respect both the people who cannot make such a choice without negative personal consequence, and people who believe that their personal LLM use is justifiable by the positive impact of their work with them (even though I am likely to disagree with that judgement).
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m
energy usage vs usefulness and its application and funding by the military could be used against computing itself in the early days, they got cheaper, more efficient, personal.
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
k
Indeed, and I expect LLMs will follow this trend as well, assuming they don't crash the economy or the biosphere before (that was a problem that early computing did not have). And I'll be happy to revise my LLM attitude if and when I see serious work towards reducing their negative impact. So far I see mostly denial. There is obviously a lot of a margin in the energy consumption of computation, as proven by biological brains. Running an LLM on a digital substrate is enormous waste. Digital technology is at one extreme end of a trade-off between energy efficiency and precision. Our hardware has an incredible level of long-term determinism which is mostly wasted on LLMs. But I don't see anybody investing serious efforts on doing better so far. Your three stages of normality are a caricature which is overall true, but it's besides the point. There are many technologies which are normal for pretty much everyone living today, and yet harmful for the long-term survival of our societies. Air travel, for example. LLMs may well become normal in the same sense in a few years. That will only accelerate the demise of our societies.
m
re: But I don't see anybody investing serious efforts on doing better so far https://taalas.com/products/
I think we are going to get "good enough" local models running on next gen GPUs or custom sillicon in one or two hardware generations, the first one is probably going to be apple. We are almost there with high end hardware and quantized open weight models:
Qwen 3.6-27B is a 27 billion parameter dense model that scores 77.2% on SWE-bench Verified. That puts it ahead of most frontier API models on real-world coding tasks. It runs on a Mac M-series with as little as 22GB of unified memory in quantized form, and it ships under the Apache 2.0 license. No API keys, no usage limits, no data leaving your machine.
the next generations of dgx are probably going to run it as well https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/products/workstations/dgx-spark/
we could make the llm dependence optional if we tried to achieve the ideas in VPRI's STEPS project, but we are not going to, I wrote this to someone some days ago, it's probably not going to happen: "we need to achieve the objectives of VPRIs STEPS and create new abstractions to make the llm generated code stay at the human comprehension scale"
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k
I agree it's not likely to happen, but it would be a great path to take! Taalas looks interesting, that's where LLMs should. But also for training. And it's only the first step, I am sure we could do a lot better than that, though not with the goal of running existing LLMs on new hardware.
BTW, there's a related thread on BlueSky, started by @Christopher Shank: https://bsky.app/profile/chrisshank.com/post/3ml24tvgpjc2b
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d
Thanks for sharing @Konrad Hinsen.
I'm working at this exact intersection of local first + LLMs + end user programming and they raise interesting points.
w
Could we say that coding agents potentially adjust some of the stickiness of existing tools? You feel less barrier to entry with trying something new?
d
Yep, @wtaysom, I feel like they amp stickiness for good or for ill.
Ill is not the right word here but why change the tool you use when you can just prompt a glue to sand the edges you don't like.
But then again, I do dislike grand narratives that render LLM and AI as a mainly conservative force, enshrining boomer incumbents/culture/modes in 1000 year old empires. I like to believe that when the cost of switching and the cost of fixing the current thing both go to zero (apologies for the going-to-zero trope too), it'll lead to exploration and maximization of the design space.
Windows update bricked my dual boot (it led to corruption of the initrd somehow). Way over my head but logging into Codex CLI in a live env made quick work of it. Idk what to think. On one hand, I'm glad LLMs can take over some family tech support tickets. On the other hand, this was probably a good learning opportunity for how initrd is utilized during Linux boot.
w
Interesting. Prompting for shims is one pleasant way to use the an agent because just getting a thing working tends to be such a tedious trial-and-error task. The reasonable consequence is that with everyone personally sanding rough edges, the edges get rougher over time. However, I've tended to see a different dynamic: when adoption costs for some framework are high (requires a different language runtime for example) an agent can be quite effective at mining it for the desired parts. The reasonable consequence is that frameworks potentially being less well developed because its easier to take bits without adopting it and entering into the culture around it.
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k
Great examples. Which can be seen as special cases of the general phenomenon that I expect to happen: less collaboration and consensus-seeking between humans, replaced by more dependence on LLM-mediated services for working around tech incompatibilities (and human ones - think of machine translation). This might well be an acceptable trade-off in a world in which LLMs are economically accessible to everyone and a diverse LLM market ensures that no single party can inject biases into LLM-based mediation. Which is unfortunately not our current world.
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