My talk on the future of coding: https://www.youtube.com/live/4GOeYylCMJI?si=_S4UEmLvzTMx8xCA&t=2285

Why the hate for "nodes and wires" 🤣 Sure they were a lot of dead ends, but they are also the FOC that is used by millions right now.

Just finished watching this keynote and totally agree with you - up to an amazing 90% or so of what you said! 😆 (I know an endorsement from me is probably likely to do you more harm than good in this community, but I'm driven to say it anyway; apologies). You mentioned something about a follow-up on the Data-first, Substrate ideas (BTW, which one of those terms? you have to pick!) ... is there more detail on that crystallising just yet?

@oPOKtdJ4UbTdPaZig6jg I regret getting baited into saying that. They are successful in a limited domain but I don’t see a way to generalize them. They suck up and waste a lot of youthful energy.

@jonathoda well you 'n' me can take on the wooorrrrlllld!!!

my understanding / interpretation of programming substrates ... https://programmingsimplicity.substack.com/p/programming-substrates-imo?r=1egdky

Actually, @Dan Swirsky did claim to be "living in the gap", so there's 3 of us maybe: https://futureofcoding.slack.com/archives/C5T9GPWFL/p1728549129367529?thread_ts=1728520021.525509&cid=C5T9GPWFL

@jonathoda Enjoyed your talk and agree on 1) gap to target 2) not starting with scaling 3) the value of shared recognition of the approach and rough shape of it 4) "substrate" as a name 5) nodes & wires not addressing the problem 6) recognition of spreadsheets, and particularly hypercard Please count me in on any discussions. FWIW, I feel the big pattern here is reuse of everything that's not a "business object", more than being data-centric, but maybe we're saying the same thing.

I'd be happy to join the "substrate" fanclub as well. So far I used the term "computational media" but I think the intention is pretty much the same. There's also @Clemens Nylandsted Klokmose (or is it @Clemens?) and his Webstrates (https://webstrates.net/) whose name explcitly derives from "substrates".

@Konrad Hinsen yes @Clemens Nylandsted Klokmose and Beaudouin-Lafon talk of “Information Substrates”. The difference is whether the programming experience is integrated into the substrate. I would like all of us to have a dialog if possible, but it might be that programming is a schism.

It wouldn't make sense not to include the how-you-program-it part, surely? Terminology: I have used the word "substrate" in my own notes and possibly articles to refer solely to the underlying "data fabric", below the programming language level, so I'd personally rather use another word; just that underlying distributed data layer being called a "substrate" makes more sense to me. "Data-first" is the other term you suggested, which to me speaks of spreadsheets and seeing the data before the formulae, the how-you-program-it part.

@jonathoda Webstrates has a coding environment that is itself a webstrate: https://codestrates.projects.cavi.au.dk/. So I'd say that programming is part of the substrate. @Duncan Cragg "Data first" is a nice and easily understood term, but for me it's not really the goal. I want data and code on equal footing, choosing to put one or the other in front depending on the situation. Which is why I care about a term that includes both data and code.