Thinking about designing a new programming language or related tool? Yes? You've come to the right Slack! Would you like to get paid for that work? Well, .

"oh.. it's like a dance party", if you make music live coding stuff then you can get paid by doing actual dance parties 😉

Very very interesting stuff. Its so nice to see "smart" people from the "nerd" corner putting their brain into matters that relate more closely to society.

love how Evan frames devs as “authors.”

In general I am pro-free software, and make money from research grants, workshops and performances, so am not interested in charging for a premium editor. The microsoft landgrab with the vs code editor is really worrying for a number of reasons, and might well make selling licenses for a premium editor a non-starter. I don't know how it works with kotlin though

whispering, but visual programming systems?

I'm also generally with @Amy Ko that the future of coding hopefully doesn't involve capitalism

my tl;dr on vs code is that it is a pretty solid, but inaccessible text editor. it takes as assumed text

Capitalism is a big tent. It involves things like materialism.

Well the particular brand of capitalism that we have means that we are living beyond our means, are very probably going to go beyond a global 1.5C temperature increase, which could ultimately mean the breakdown of civilisation

For me its about the term "sustainability".

@Alex McLean have you seen @Devine Lu Linvega and Rek’s talk, Software Doldrums? or ran into the permacomputing crowd?

I think climate change and sustainability, fo rthe individual, for society and for society in relationship to nature are important things. We can use words and hope someone other can relate to them. So yes we are facing the metacrisis or moloch ( failure of coordination)

@Eli Mellen I am a keen follower of their work, but didn't know that talk, will have a watch thanks!

Devine also spoke on similar themes at Strange Loop this year. I think that’ll vibe with ya

It is difficult to speak about a paradigm which doesn't yet exist. But going beyond capitalism is definetly a paradigmshift.

Bret Victor's Dynamic land seems to go into that direction: still computing but different kinds of relationships. There are lots of other projects but the culture and the paradigms shift slowly 🙂

Yes dynamicland feels like it's trying to be a kind of holiday from capitalism

In my opinion it’s quite close what Seymour papert envisioned and what today is “maker space culture”

On a collapse computing tip, here at TTT Dave is currently working on making semiconductors from discarded mine waste

@Eli Mellen Nice thoughts! In the earlier days of the live coding community (early 2000's), there was a feeling against the idea of an audience. At least, the 'powerbooks unplugged' audience would reject the stage and sit within the audience, writing code to make music for each other and the people around them, but rejecting the separation between producers and consumers. You can extend the idea to say that programmers should reject the idea of having users.

This was really nice to watch, I mainly just feeling seen in that yea this shit is really hard.

@Alex McLean I appreciate the spirit but as I referenced “paradigm shift” I also wanted to reference the associated book: the structure of scientific revolutions - Kuhn. In which he reveals that if people become to invested in a paradigm - even scientists- they can not change. So you basically have to wait for them to die. So it’s sadly not as simple as: oh look there is a blueprint how to make thinks better, now just let us make things better.

@curious_reader Heh fair enough. I think it's possible for older generations to make space for and support the next generation though. Sadly they often end up fighting against them.. as former radicals who got to the top by fighting, and rather than change their behaviour, continue fighting by punching down

Ah like indigenous knowledge? Yes they knew and know (hence it’s still sustainable , they even can sustain their knowledge today) how to sustain knowledge. Sand Talk by Tyson yunkaporta made a positive impression on me in that context.

I enjoyed the talk. But I'll be honest and say I'm not worried about being "Jeffed" and I don't think others should be. Honestly, I find that worry a bit misplaced. Datomic is mentioned and it definitely didn't get jeffed. Nor did dark, or anything else I can think of that is using hosting to fund language development. (I know datomic is closed source, but no datalog database has been jeffed (sadly)) But even if you do get jeffed, that isn't death. The companies that have changed license because of AWS taking their open source work are massive companies still. In fact, it is their relicense because of the worry about jeffing that seems to be causing their long term issues.

I agree @Jimmy Miller -- I think there may be a disconnect around getting jeffed. Or like 2 flavors of it, the one described in the talk and then what I anticipated him to talk about was when some big company sort of buys up a dev behind a project and how that can either disappear, or dramatically change the nature of the project

Related, some controversy about how the processing foundation apportion its funds Ben Fry arguing that there should be a 50/50 split between development and community projects, that seems fair.. Sadly some are taking the opportunity to criticise the foundation for being infected by a 'woke mind virus' We have an opencollective crowdfund for tidalcycles that has slowly built up to a ~£3k pot. Currently we've put out a call for £200 'micro grants' for community projects which could hire a workshop venue, etc. It seems a nice way to make a comparatively small amount of money go a long way. It'd be good to use it to fund development but I think £3k could get eaten up very quickly. There's also the whole issue that many have been putting volunteer time in to the projects for years, and adding money to the community might poison things somehow.