thinking-together
  • Tony Worm

    Tony Worm

    09/07/2022, 11:50 PM
    I'm working on generating code from a series of prompts posed to a developer like this: https://twitter.com/verdverm/status/1566252517062807552 Is this the kind of thing you mean in your first question?
  • r

    Ricardo A. Medina

    09/09/2022, 2:49 PM
    I'm sure this has been discussed here (appreciate if someone can redirect me), but... What use cases do you see people have for creating their own applications? Do you think people are willing to pay for it?
  • j

    Jason Morris

    09/10/2022, 7:21 PM
    We have all seen UI for building complex data structures based on a schema with references. Jason is a person, bob is a person, bob is a friend of Jason, etc. I am designing something similar, but I want it to give the user the ability to also make partially ground and unground statements, and to specify that fully ground, partially ground, or unground statements have an open/closed world assumption applied to them. Has anyone seen a user interface for that?
  • j

    Jason Morris

    09/11/2022, 5:30 AM
    Most user interfaces let you say what is true, and then what you didn't say is presumed false. The entire relational database world is based on that idea. The statements are about a single, closed world with boolean truth values. But that's not how humans actually know things. The user can't say "Definitely X, maybe Y, not Z" even if that's exactly what they know. I just now realized that the language I'm using knows how to deal with multiple worlds, and five different truth values are possible in each, but no one has ever built a user interface for collecting structured data that way! Here I am trying to mimic the capabilities of less sophisticated tools, when I should have been building the thing that collects knowledge those systems can't even represent.
  • Jim Meyer

    Jim Meyer

    09/20/2022, 8:33 AM
    TypeScript 👑 Last month of PRs on GitHub. https://twitter.com/jntrnr/status/1572069512920584192 Pretty excited about this, because static type info such as typed React props unlocks new types of visual IDEs for the web.
  • Peter Saxton

    Peter Saxton

    09/26/2022, 2:38 PM
    Good afternoon. I was thinking about the following question an the answer was less clear than I was originally thinking. What is the fundamental difference between a Repl and a Shell? In my opinion there is very little, the main differences seem to be what systems they are plugged into. i.e. a shell is plugged into the os and a repl is language specific. Also if we add the nice feature of being able to change previous expressions do both end up looking effectively like a code notebook. So the final feeling is just that a code notebook is just a fancy Repl. In which case are code notebooks the future of Repl's/shells. Would you like a code notebook that was able to read your os processes and replace the sell?
  • Breck Yunits

    Breck Yunits

    09/27/2022, 3:46 PM
    Did someone here make this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGOIt0xh0dw

    ?
  • Gregor

    Gregor

    09/27/2022, 4:18 PM
    A very status-quo question to inform my near-future-of-coding project (Tofu). How many keystrokes does this transformation take in your preferred editor? How natural/flowy does your mental model feel while making these changes?https://twitter.com/watware/status/1574778141234659336
  • Mariano Guerra

    Mariano Guerra

    10/11/2022, 10:21 AM
    what's a good UI to edit a string representation of a small array of numbers?
    https://twitter.com/pomber/status/1579775193215799296
  • Breck Yunits

    Breck Yunits

    10/11/2022, 6:04 PM
    Scenario: GitHub, GitLab and BitBucket decide they're just not that into it anymore and are gonna sunset. What are the other cool online VCS communities?
  • Kartik Agaram

    Kartik Agaram

    10/15/2022, 4:26 AM
    One problem in the world today is that if you take a widely used program and add a warning to it in some situation, people get mad at you. No matter how useful the warning is, how insidious the situation it protects you against. The reason for this seems to be that not everyone who sees a warning is empowered to fix the underlying cause. You might use a library that does something warning-worthy. You can't change the library yourself to fix the warning. Question for live-program enthusiasts like @Jack Rusher[1][2]: I wonder how much this problem is caused by overusing batch-programming and an insufficiently expressive communication channel for warnings. I made up a wishlist at https://lobste.rs/s/vgnnjt/we_are_stuck_with_egrep_fgrep_unless_you#c_gqhemo that might be interesting to think about together. On the other hand, I see Common Lisp people get annoyed about similar issues: https://mailman.common-lisp.net/pipermail/asdf-devel/2022-January/006680.html [1] https://futureofcoding.slack.com/archives/CCL5VVBAN/p1665503282267399 [2] https://futureofcoding.slack.com/archives/C03RR0W5DGC/p1665594315849469
  • Jim Meyer

    Jim Meyer

    10/16/2022, 11:39 AM
    Coding tools treat code as static structured text. UX design tools treat design as static vector-graphics with "noodles for swapping a 1000 static states" on top. Code is data that needs direct manipulation with instant feedback. That's what creative tools need to achieve.
  • Breck Yunits

    Breck Yunits

    10/22/2022, 4:20 PM
    Anyone know where I can find public domain SVG icons for use on our websites?
  • n

    Nicholas Yang

    10/24/2022, 2:53 AM
    Does anybody know if there’s a parser generator like tree-sitter, i.e. produces a CST instead of an AST, but that can be used as a compiler frontend? Tree-sitter kinda can be, but it’s not the easiest
  • Jim Meyer

    Jim Meyer

    10/27/2022, 6:45 AM
    Had a daydream of an alternative reality where 1% of VC funding that goes into no-code had to fund this community instead, no strings attached. Didn't get to the part of how that'd actually work given the messy nature of people, but sure would be an interesting situation 😄 Where's all the ambition, the sense of adventure, that drove funding in the 60s? A time where the mother of all demos was possible to achieve with a small team that thought outside the box. Have VCs, researchers and funders become disillusioned. Have marketing teams cried wolf too many times. Have people given up on solving the really hard problems at the core of code. Who's picking up the mantle from the Engelbarts and Victors? Who's willing to fund their work and have it become products that changes people's lives.
  • Jim Meyer

    Jim Meyer

    10/30/2022, 7:07 AM
    99% of humans think of code as a medium that is too difficult. I don't think the medium is the problem. I think it's the way we've been asking end-users to interact with it: So far, 99% of human-to-code interactions have been code-as-text, an interaction paradigm with unforgiving syntax and symbolic mental models. Investments in interaction paradigms for code have almost exclusively focused on code-as-text and code-as-export, but there are other more end-user friendly ways of interacting with code that we can explore. Let's break down the interaction paradigms for code (tell me if I missed any!): Code-as-text (massively explored): You type, the code editor helps you type. Examples: IDEs, Low-Code • Code-as-export (mostly explored): Code is treated as a secondary source of truth via one-way export flows from some vendor-specific data you're editing. The tool cannot manipulate or understand the code it just exported, and the interaction ends here. Examples: Vector-based UX design tools, No-Code • Code-as-programming-portals (moderately explored): @Maggie Appleton wrote a great breakdown of this at https://maggieappleton.com/programming-portals Code-as-data (largely unexplored): Direct manipulation of code ASTs/code visualizations/code output. The tool responds to non-textual interaction from the user and reconciles their intent with a corresponding change in the underlying code-as-text storage. • Code-as-executable (largely unexplored): A code engine/runtime executes code-as-data changes that result from user interactions to give the user instant feedback, closing the feedback loop of the interaction. Related to live-coding, but where live-coding is tied to code-as-text, code-as-executable can respond to changes from code-as-text as well as code-as data. • Code-as-source-of-truth (massively explored): IDEs, version control systems. The primary interaction consists of reconciling your code interactions with those performed by others, e.g. through merging, pushes, conflict resolution. There's so much unexplored territory outside the traditional code-as-text and code-as-export interaction paradigms! Would love to know what you think and whether I've missed any 😄
  • Konrad Hinsen

    Konrad Hinsen

    10/31/2022, 6:33 AM
    I'd claim that Smalltalk is mostly code-as-data and code-as-executable. Only methods (the leaves of the code tree) are manipulated as text in a typical Smalltalk system. And even those leaves are also accessible to code-as-data tools in modern Smalltalks (e.g. Squeak and Pharo). For example, I can rename slots (instance variables) across all methods of a class as a single operation. I can also search for all methods in the system that contain a specific literal, or send a specific message. Recent versions of Glamorous Toolkit (a layer on top of Pharo that completely replaces the UI) add refactoring tools that let me do system-wide find-and-replace using patterns in the AST. I find code-as-data-with-text-at-the-leaves a very nice mix of code representations. Text is great at fine granularity levels. It sucks for the big picture.
  • m

    mako yass

    11/01/2022, 9:02 PM
    The recent interview on Worse is Better mentioned that iOS restrictions on the use of JITs seem to be relaxing. I found this to be strategically significant so I brought it up with bytecode alliance (group promoting WASM standards). They seem to think it isn't going to happen. The change linked in the episode notes was in macos, and the requirements for distribution in iOS still seems to be dire. Dynamism is forbidden. You can write JITs for your iOS apps, but you can't distribute them unless they're only going to be run on a static input bundled with the app.https://bytecodealliance.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/206238-general/topic/.E2.9C.94.20using.20wit-bindgen.20in.20mobile.20rust
  • curious_reader

    curious_reader

    11/18/2022, 10:20 AM
    As I go slowly my way through the kernel syllabus, I find gems like this one: "The practice of software begins to resemble closely the practice of memoria and, specifically, the memory theatres of Camillo, which constitute memory as a public space; a kind of virtual architecture for an incomplete image of the world. Software begins to look like the closest medium to memory itself we have produced." https://www.kernel.community/en/learn/module-3/remember/#memory-only-exists-when-distributed What do you think? How do do you personally perceive Software as Memory?
  • John Voorhees (Primitive)

    John Voorhees (Primitive)

    11/18/2022, 5:57 PM
    I haven't seen this posted yet. I was at GitHub Universe last week and I saw a live demo of "Hey GitHub", a voice controlled interface that uses Copilot to author code. The first intention of this product is to help people with disabilities, including those suffering from Repetitive Stress Injuries:https://githubnext.com/projects/hey-github I'm building a VR coding app. We looked at voice to text input using Codex about a year ago. I think it's a very exciting Future of Code concept:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icHLoxOFerk

  • Jim Meyer

    Jim Meyer

    11/24/2022, 7:46 AM
    Vector-graphics used for design is stored in files and cloud databases, but that doesn't mean designers write text or SQL to interact with it. Code needs to be no different. It needs a UI.
  • Jim Meyer

    Jim Meyer

    11/25/2022, 6:55 PM
    Are hyperlinks the biggest idea to arrive once we had computing? I mean in terms of impact on our lives. On our future. A piece of transformative UX design and engineering work that was done—without any chance of knowing how massive it would become. I think hyperlinks are bigger than the Internet. The Internet isn't the Internet without hyperlinks. Yes, hyperlinks don't work without a running internet, but the Internet isn't "the thing", it's "the thing that let us create the (many exciting) things". It's wild to think that once the idea of hyperlinks formed, the UX design that arose was the application of text color and an underline. With that, semantic color and an underline, we got: Hyperlinks as sharing. Hyperlinks as social currency. Hyperlinks as digital neural connections. Hyperlinks as the connective tissue of civilization. Hyperlinks as the most transformative tool in use by humans today? Or maybe, just maybe, cats had this planned out all along 😁
  • n

    Nicholas Yang

    11/26/2022, 9:00 PM
    Hey I wrote up a blog post on tooling for programming languages, basically tools like tree-sitter that help programming language implementors provide higher quality user experience. I’d love to see what people think of the post! It’s in draft but I’ll probably publish it soon. https://github.com/NicholasLYang/uptointerpretation/blob/master/content/posts/tooling-for-tooling.md
  • Christopher Shank

    Christopher Shank

    12/01/2022, 6:16 AM
    What’s the relationship between domain-specific programing (i.e DSLs) and end-user programming?